The Dream Machine Revealed--Part One of Three!
Posted 06/30/08 at 12:36:25 PM | by David Murphy
Are you ready? Every year, Maximum PC builds the de-facto, pants-shattering, best-system-ever. We crown this stunning achievement of manufacturing gusto the Dream Machine. This is its eleventh incarnation, and perhaps its most controversial: the equipment, the enclosure, the build--not a single part of this year's rig was without debate.
In this epic three-part series, we're going to give you a first-look at exactly what's going in this holiest of rigs. And we're also going to walk you through its actual construction--coolant leaks and all--in one of the most demanding chassis we've ever slapped a machine into. Let's begin.
The Keyboard
Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 is our typing instrument of choice for the many games we'll be playing on said awesome Dream Machine 2008. It feels as great as it looks, the ergonomic split of the keys soothing our fingertips for hours upon hours' worth of crazy Team Fortress 2 action. But don't take our word for it--take our official word for it by checking out the March 2006 review of this little beast.
The Mouse
Logitech's G5 Revision 2 mouse is as good-looking as it is good-using. Good to use. Whatever. This mouse rocks. It's supreme comfort is matched by its slick gliding action, which you're free to set to your leisure. You can customize the on-screen translation of the mouse's speedy movements by using the two sensitivity buttons below the scroll wheel. These, along with two back/forward thumb-toggle buttons, are as helpful for fragging your friends as they are useful for advanced application work, like Photoshop painting. And if that wasn't enough, you can even stick weights into the G5's guts to better match your real-world movement sensitivities to your on-screen performance. Now move your mouse over to our full review of this awesome accessory.
The Display
If you've been following Maximum PC for any length of time, this should be a no-brainer. We have yet to review a monitor as delightful as Gateway's 30-inch XHD3000. It's picture is clear, vivid, and glitch-free: the trifecta of achievements that separates lesser monitors from the upper-echelon Dream Machine contenders. The display has enough connection options to fit right in your living room, although we'd think that you would want this touch-button display smack-dab in the middle of your desk. If you have room, that is. Multitask by reading our full review of the display while you shuffle your papers and trinkets around.
The Hard Drive(s)
For the speediest, largest-capacity performance you can get your hands on, look no further than Samsung's HD103UJ terabyte hard drive. This is the fastest terabyte drive we've reviewed, so it only makes perfect sense to lock three of them in a RAID 5 array for a maximum combination of redundancy, speed, and storage. We were tempted to go for the gusto with RAID 0, but given the sheer amount of data we'll be slapping on these three beauties, the last thing we want to happen is for one drive oopsie to nuke the array. We'll trade away one terabyte of storage for two protected terabytes any day of the week.
As for the HD103UJ's little friend. Well. How to put this delicately. The other drives we're using in the Dream Machine are so new, so fresh, so undisclosed... that we can't talk about them yet. Nope. It took many vows of silence, the sacrifice of one intern, and limitless amounts of begging for us to be able to get our hands on these models. Check back with us mid-July for a full review of this big secret, but feel free to speculate what we're up to until then: solid-state storage? An enterprise-class drive? A tiberium-powered disk?
Check back next Monday for the second part of our Dream Machine reveal. Until then, post your thoughts and predictions in the comments section below!
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$5000 to chrome this case!?!!
Submitted by cc3d on Tue, 2008-08-05 12:55
What a friggin rip-off!! I checked prices at a local chopper shop up the street and they quoted the high-end at $300!!
why would you ever do raid 5
Submitted by AndyYankee17 on Thu, 2008-07-17 22:10
why would you ever do raid 5 if money was no object?raid 10 or 0+1 would provide redundancy as well much faster speed, I would've opted for 6 raptors in raid 10, 3 of those in raid 0 would provide inredible speed and give me more space than I need, hell I'm living with just 160 GB (that's before formatting) right now and I'm doing ok
Submitted by atonal chaotic on Wed, 2008-07-16 07:57
My guess on the Super Secret Drives (note acronym.)
Running the OS off something with no moving parts is exactly the trick I would try if I had a Dream budget.
Submitted by bigboy on Tue, 2008-07-15 12:15
i have a good guess as to what those mystery har drives are. i do agree with a lot of you who say they are velociraptors, but what kind? i remember a while back reading that w.d. wanted to make a 20,000rpm verison of the velociraptor; what better place to debute it in then in the maximum pc dream machine edition. i bet im right :)
Dissapointing storage
Submitted by urmumsacow on Tue, 2008-07-15 06:19
Bit dissapointing you guys couldnt score some of the new 1.5 TB drives. Also whats up with only 3 of them? Why not 5? 2TB (more like 1.8TB) of storage is hardly dreamy if you ask me.
The Seagate 1.5 terabyte
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-15 10:25
The Seagate 1.5 terabyte drives won't be shipping until August, which places them outside of the scope of our Dream Machine by about two months.
Monday's hard drive announcement will reveal all... have faith.
Submitted by Mathewpb on Sat, 2008-07-12 16:08
So whats the PSU going to be for this beastie since its going to run either SLI or Crossfire.
Submitted by TheNoob on Fri, 2008-07-11 19:35
It looks like the OCZ core series SATA II SSD drives. Lool at this link http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_core_series_sata_ii_2_5-ssd
Submitted by pseizure2000 on Tue, 2008-07-08 13:21
The mouse you guys picked out seems all fine and dandy as I have used it myself in the past. However I am curious as to why you didn't pick out the seemingly better mouse, the MX Revolution, which is pretty affordable now. It has almost all the features of the G5, minus the two buttons near the mouse (although you could substitute the search button for one, plus it has the thumb scroll wheel which I love for using in games. Best of all though, the wireless part of the mouse makes it so much more worthwhile for all of us. I myself didn't think I'd be using my mouse away from my desk much but it makes it great to use when I'm away on my bed watching a movie and need to use it. This seems quite an overlook if you ask me. I love the Revolution, help prove me wrong. you guys gave it a kickass rating yourselves.
Submitted by brokenmoth08 on Sun, 2008-07-06 12:02
I bet they are WD Velociraptors.
Submitted by TheMurph on Mon, 2008-07-07 12:55
Oh, Photoshop works wonders... :D
Storage is nice, but...
Submitted by Cache on Fri, 2008-07-04 07:32
The real meat and bones for me--especially this time around--is if they will move onto DDR3, given it's ever-dropping price point and wider motherboard support. That the next chip will be Intel is a no-brainer, but I am curious if they managed to get a chip not-yet-released-to-the-public. A mild curiosity, to be sure.
And the case, I have always loved a good case--I was extremely pleased last year that they went to a case that actually looked something new. Don't get me wrong, the Silverstone cases are usually excellent quality, but they are less imaginative on their execution.
Finally, any chances we'll be seeing ESA-certified components with the new system? I know you can't tell, but it would definitely be something new to look at.
Submitted by pellier on Thu, 2008-07-03 12:21
With the Graphics controversy could it be possible that they are putting 4 ATI 4800 in Quad Crossfire? They may want to use and an intel mobo and this would be the best way. And the could even be using scsi drives in it. I also wonder about dual or tri booting it
Vista 32bit+ Vista 64bit
or Vista 32bit+ Vista 64bit+ Ubuntu/other linux distros
No Xp cause its no longer out. And as dave said in the 73rd podcast its worth putting in a computer that can handle it
Ifthey do 64bit I would hope that they have at least 4gigs of DDR3
Submitted by mc_rog46_sd1 on Thu, 2008-07-03 08:43
Anyone consider that maybe they might use solid state drives?
Submitted by HitmanHybrid on Wed, 2008-07-02 16:54
I like the choices so far up to the harddrives. I mean holy crap, I can't believe you folks at MPC need that much storage on your comp. I still think 500GB is a lot, not to mention 1TB! But 3TB plus 2 other drives, wow. Anyway, I hope you guys have some cooling in mind for them :\
Submitted by pellier on Thu, 2008-07-03 12:19
its only 2 tb. the other tb went to protect the data cause its raid 5
well, if that pic is any
Submitted by nebbuchanezzar on Wed, 2008-07-02 14:24
well, if that pic is any indication of what drives are being used, and not just a semi-blurred stock photo [my $$$ is on the former] i would definitely expect to see a WD drive in there...black housing, and its blurred, so i cant be 100%, but it looks like a typical WD sticker atop that drive, and it does appear the blurring left a nice trail of hs fins on the side of the hdd...i would definitely say it looks like a raptor of some variation, and knowing whats coming, i would definitely put my $$$ on it being the 20k RPM raptors...;-) i know MPC cant confirm or deny, but what do the rest of you think?
http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&u=150233
Fold for MPC team 11108!!!
Submitted by TheMurph on Wed, 2008-07-02 15:12
Wrong. It's three 500GB IDE drives.
The ribbon cable is back!
:D
Submitted by ehasoon on Wed, 2008-07-02 18:43
From the pic.. it looks like 3 velociraptors.. fastest consumer drives on the market today, and they're a 'sensible' choice too. I think.
Submitted by TheMurph on Thu, 2008-07-03 00:57
Well that doesn't make sense, given that everyone's been free to talk about Velociraptors for what, a month now?
Dream Machine Comment
Submitted by zeringue on Wed, 2008-07-02 06:08
I am surprised that you chose raid 5 for your dream machine, why not just go for Raid 10. It requires one more drive but yields the same space and performs much better than raid 5.
Submitted by TheMurph on Wed, 2008-07-02 10:26
Answer: "It requires one more drive"
Submitted by usp211816 on Tue, 2008-07-01 18:58
you sound like RAID is painfull
if u realy have a drive throughput issue get a rack slap in a RAID 50 fiber mesh (4GBper Line)NAS
oh wait theres no room for a fiber nic with all those video cards in the way.
if all else fails...
Submitted by SpazzAttack on Tue, 2008-07-01 16:36
I give up trying to post a comment.
This text editor you guys installed is a real POS.
yet you manged to post this
Submitted by franktank on Wed, 2008-07-02 07:55
yet you manged to post this POS
Submitted by jtroll on Tue, 2008-07-01 13:21
No one's going to comment on Norm's tie? No one? Really? It had to be me?
Anyway, I'm just wondering how you guys are going to go about overclocking this beast. Murph, I hope you're not using any radioactive materials over there... a nuclear-powered machine would be awesome, but think of the fallout, man. You've got coworkers to worry about here.
tie?
Submitted by fake gordon mah ung on Tue, 2008-07-01 17:24
Why is Norm dressed so much better than eveyone else. He already got a promotion.
Unlike most of the MPC crew,
Submitted by DanAmrich on Wed, 2008-07-02 11:41
Unlike most of the MPC crew, Norm has fashion sense. Anything less would be uncivilized.
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-01 22:43
It's this weird fashion thing norm does. Between the occasional loose tie, the flaps of the dress shirt hanging out from under the sweater... I think he's aiming to be America's Next Top Editor. :D
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-01 14:13
We actually forced our interns to find large palm leaves and fan the machine whilst Gordon overclocked it. Worked like a charm.
They were some big leaves.
Submitted by dreamreality on Wed, 2008-07-02 12:28
They were some big leaves.
:0 We plan for Tomorrow,
Submitted by whisp on Wed, 2008-07-02 15:34
:0
We plan for Tomorrow, but we Live for Today
Submitted by Bashar42 on Mon, 2008-06-30 22:26
Glad you guys are going with RAID5. I'm also in the process of building my own Dream Machine, and also decided to go with RAID5. But I've been unable to proceed...
A Dream Machine has got to have the fastest graphics solution... right now thats three Geforce GTX 280s in Triple SLI config... check.
For that you'll need an Nvidia 790i Ultra based Motherboard.... check.
As Maximum PC's own recently published RAID article exhibits, host-based RAID controllers, especally those built into the motherboard (i.e Nvidia and Intel) perform like crap when set up to do RAID5. There are two reasons for this: 1. they tap the CPU for number crunching (they lack their own dedicated processor for RAID) and 2. they only have and old PCI channel for bus. Bandwidth is completely lacking. Even in RAID0, motherboard-hosted RAID controllers start to fall apart if you strip more then 2 HHD together. Sure you get a benefit from 3 or 4 drives, but the bottleneck is killing their potential benefit.
Again, as your recent article shows, the only way to get around this is by investing in a dedicated RAID controller with its own processor to do the lifting. Such as the Highpoint model you guys recommended... check,
Now here is the rub: It requires a PCIe x8 slot.
Every 790i motherboard (except for one, MSI's P7N2) is basicly a refrence board with only 3 PCIe x16/x8 slots. That leaves only MSI's new board which has 4. Ironicly, the P7N2 has been out for several months... everywhere else on the planet except for the good old USA. But even if I decide to pony up for overseas shipping and taxes, the 4th PCIe slot is right next to another, and right on the edge of the motherboard. Using double-slot graphics cards like... well any high end card in the last 18 months... and that 4th PCIe slot might as well be a 16bit ISA slot. Try to put your beefy graphics card on the last slot, and it hangs out over the edge of the motherboard, and touches the case.
So how did you guys build a Dream Machine with RAID5? Please don't tell me you went with vanilla double-SLI or with the crappy on-board controler for RAID5. Sacrificing either of these two would strip the DREAM from this machine.
Bashar42
Submitted by yr on Tue, 2008-07-01 18:11
After reading the RAID controller article (MAY 2008), I was amazed at what a difference it could make, and then was amazed that last years dream machine used RAID 5 on the 680i's host! What a pity! This dream machine better be a "dream" and not "sleep" through by using host-controlled RAID. For a dream machine; nothing less than the ADAPTEC 5405 reviewed in that artice!!!
Oh, and eSATA (even with is a MUST)!
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-01 00:55
Oh, Bashar42. You make excellent points. However, even our Dream Machine has limits in its functionality. Will you see a RAID card? Perhaps. Perhaps not... and have you pegged the motherboard correctly? Perhaps... perhaps not.
Submitted by Bashar42 on Tue, 2008-07-01 19:58
Murph,
Perhaps I didn't make myself to clear. I could care less about what other yet-to-be-revealed parts went into your Dream Machine. I'm just asking one techie to another how to get around this issue of trying to fit a RAID controller for RAID5 and triple SLI into the same system. I was hoping you would actually give me a good answer, regardless of what you did or didn't do in your new Dream Machine.
Right now, the only two solutions I see for this problem is to go with the aforementioned MSI P7N2 and either:
1: Pony up for liquid cooling water blocks on each of your three GTX 280s so as to turn them all into single-slot cards. A lot of companies are rolling out these waterblocks, but few are smart enough to make them low-profile so that they turn each card into a one-slot wide part. One of these few, is Danger Den and BFG, who have teamed up to release a highly overclocked GTX 280 with the waterblock preinstalled. The only down side to this is that its extremely expensive. For example, this watercooled GTX 280 from BFG/Danger Den costs $50 (~$750) more then a similar offering from eVGA (~$700) which is similarly OCed, but still takes up two slots on the motherboard. Danger Den sells the waterblock by itself... for a whopping $150. Sure the factory OCing is nice, and yes, the air-cooled 280s are reputed to by as loud as my gardener when he comes around with his leaf blower, but really the extra $50 over their already-overprices competitors models is for the single-slot solution. These prices are rediculus, even for hard core people with money to burn on their own personal Dream Machine.
2: Buy a flexible PCIe extender so you can reposition the RAID controller somewhere else inside the case. Frankly I'm not sure this will work, or even where to begin modifying a standard case to have a "free floating" expansion card mounted somewhere else on the inside. A bigger unknown with this is whether you can find such an extender that has a low enough profile when connected, to allow the fat 2-slot graphics cardnext to it to slid over it. Most of these extenders I've looked at need at least an inch for their connecters on the PCIe slot. I'm thinking this is probibly too much.
Bashar42
Submitted by ehasoon on Wed, 2008-07-02 18:34
Hey Bashar, 1 way to get around the 3rd graphx card touching the case is to get a case that mounts the mobo higher, like the cosmos S or the armor+. Just my 2cents.
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-01 22:54
Unfortunately, I can't expose more of our decision-making process without revealing more parts of the Dream Machine that have yet to be unveiled. I'm not dodging the question. But certain things I simply cannot discuss at this point in time.
What I can say is this: while the Dream Machine is supposed to be an exemplifier of the most powerful system we can build, we do take into consideration what an user could or would do, as many attempt to replicate our system throughout the course of the year. We also have to take price versus performance into consideration. While this may not seem apparent given our (typically) outlandish system builds, it does play into the decision-making process regarding some of the hardware. That's why you're only seeing one 30-inch monitor, not two. And it's why certain other parts of the Dream Machine 2008 may shock and/or astound you.
You'll note, for example, that one of the better RAID cards we've tested, Adaptec's 5405, is a honkin' $425. That doesn't seem like much given the grand total of the DM, but it's still enough to make us pause and consider our options.
Brash, somehow I doubt
Submitted by Strongbad536 on Wed, 2008-07-02 17:30
Brash, somehow I doubt that they used Tri SLI, as I havent seen it in recent years, from what I hear its overkill, and depending on the motherboard selection, there may be no room for a sound card since the 280s are dual slot videocards. But after seeing some ATI benchmarks, I wouldn't be suprised if they got a 4870X2 and used a couple of thos. Plus, after reading the article on RAID controllers, you can see that most motherboards perform fine in a RAID configuration.
P.S. Murph, I totally see your point about only using one display, 60inches of LCD would be extreme overkill.
Complete the free Stamps.com offer for a free 360 Elite
Submitted by Strongbad536 on Mon, 2008-06-30 14:22
Those secret hard drives, are they the supposed 20,000RPM Velociraptors that WD has coming? Thats my guess, and I thought you woul've used more of a gaming keyboard like the G15 or Saitek Cyborg instead of an ergonomic model, but still, the peripherals are not really what were interested in.
Do you know how many of those Gateway panels you're using, or is it just one?
Complete the free Stamps.com offer for a free 360 Elite
Submitted by TheMurph on Mon, 2008-06-30 14:58
Just one Gateway monitor...
Submitted by linuxcrazy on Mon, 2008-06-30 20:04
Aw, just one?
Submitted by TheMurph on Tue, 2008-07-01 00:51
Both Katherine and I agreed that two thirty-inch panels would be pushing the limits of insanity, not to mention desk space. Seriously. I love huge monitors, and even I would be scared at the thought of two giant displays staring down at me all the time.
For what it's worth, I'm all
Submitted by willsmith on Wed, 2008-07-02 18:21
For what it's worth, I'm all for two thirty-inch panels. I use two 24s and 19 on my desk right now, and it's spectacular!
Two monitors a dream, one monitor is a... well, normal.
Submitted by theqman on Wed, 2008-07-02 05:36
Actually, I would think two monitors to be pretty normal. Right now I'm surrounded by six (two 24", four 19") but I quickly found that the motion of extreme Left to Extreme right got VERY hard on the neck. I haven't used two of them since the first week I set it all up. Still... only ONE monitor? For a "dream" machine? Seriously, while you're playing [fill in favorite monitor filling game here] what are you using to look up stuff on the net', watching your video cams around the house, seeing new email coming in, etc.? (true, that's what I use the two 19" monitors (on a 2nd system for).
But I applaud the Microsoft keyboard. I had really gotten to like the "natural" keyboard layout and was shock and saddened when my black PS2 gave out during a rousing LAN of Diablo II. The G15 I have now lights up the keys nice and pretty but it's a PITA to use just like all other '102 key layout' boards. I can already feel my hands and fingers urging carpal to join them. Plus I have yet - 2 years later- to use ANY of the 18 extra "macro" buttons.
Submitted by TheMurph on Wed, 2008-07-02 10:56
I have nothing against two-montor configurations. It's what I use at work, actually.
The question was in reference to two thirty-inch panels. Fun as that would be, I think I would actually go crazy after a short amount of time. Diminishing returns and all.
Submitted by franktank on Wed, 2008-07-02 07:59
If you don;t mind me asking, what are you using to drive all six monitors? Is it an Matrox product by chance? If so, how do you like it?
I have a need for a minimum of four monitos and a max of six so I'd be very interested in hearing the detials of your setup.
Cheers,
Frank from Tulsa
Submitted by TheMurph on Wed, 2008-07-02 12:47
Perhaps... Displaylink?
Submitted by linuxcrazy on Mon, 2008-06-30 13:05
That picture of the MPC staff staring at it is so hilarious. Classic.
Very nice looking DM I'm sure it will be as awesome as it sounds.
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